| Author |
Message |
    
Eric Simon
New member
Username: Simonen
Post Number: 1
Registered: 09-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 09:04 am: | 
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I am making the transition to OTA and live in the Carlsbad area near the corner of El camino and Tamarack. Currently, I have a DB4 antenna (http://www.antennasdirect.com/DB4_HDTV_antenna.html) that is roof mounted and unable to pick up 6.1, 8.1 and 10.1 from what I can remember.
At this moment, I have a Wingard HD7084P (http://www.winegard.com/kbase/upload/HD7084P.pdf) enroute to help me pick up these VHF stations, but I wonder if it will help with 6.1, because of interference from Banning and LA. I didn't really think about this when I purchased the antenna. Since I do not have it yet, are there any tips that I should try out of the box? |
holl_ands
Advanced Member
Username: Holl_ands
Post Number: 2176
Registered: 06-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 10:22 am: |
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It helps if you go to www.tvfool.com, enter your location and then
copy/paste results URL (at top of browser window) into a post. |
Eric Simon
New member
Username: Simonen
Post Number: 2
Registered: 09-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 10:58 am: |
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Sorry, here it is: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3dd5a0fe5570ab0f |
JoeM
Intermediate Member
Username: Joem
Post Number: 86
Registered: 09-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 01:14 pm: |
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Quick look:
You should get 8 and 10. But you've got two obstructions with XETV-DT and there's a co-channel warning (probably KVMD). Phil-LaCosta just south of you has had problems getting it but I don't know if he has LOS or what. |
Gary Stigall, XETV
Moderator
Username: Garys
Post Number: 524
Registered: 12-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 01:37 pm: |
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You can get XETV-DT 23 (6.1) IF you use an antenna with higher front-to-back ratio. The Terrestrial Digital 91XG works very well for viewers in Oceanside and Carlsbad. I suspect the 43XG is good enough also. Since this is a UHF-only antenna, you will have to install a small VHF antenna like the AntennaCraft Y5-7-13 or equivalent high-band yagi. Run lines from each of these antennas to a UHF-VHF combiner.
This is all detailed at...
http://www.sandiego6.com/content/contacts/faq.aspx
This antenna combination is larger vertically than what you ordered since you will need a couple feet of separation, but it's much smaller horizontally.
Sorry that I couldn't have better news, but you do want good reception, and there are going to be a bunch of co-channel interference in the future that you want to be prepared for.
Gary Stigall
Dir. of Engineering
Bay City TV - XETV
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Eric Simon
New member
Username: Simonen
Post Number: 3
Registered: 09-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 03:28 pm: |
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Thanks for the reply. This is a tough one, because I am not sure whether to return it once it arrives or try it anyways ($35 for shipping on a $90 antenna). I had hoped it would have a large enough front to back ratio to prevent interference. They say it is >20 for channel six. I wanted it as a replacement to my DB4 so that I could improve on UHF reception and be able to pick up VHF at the same time. |
Gary Stigall, XETV
Moderator
Username: Garys
Post Number: 525
Registered: 12-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 04:40 pm: |
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You might want to try it as long as it's arriving anyway.
By the way, the front-to-back ratio at channel 6 is not relevant here since the digital service is on UHF channel 23. It's likely somewhere around 16 dB. This may be enough most of the time, but I recommend the other 91XG because it's self-rated at 28 dB F/B and that would greatly solidify present and future signals.
But if you are shaded from the north by terrain, buildings, or even a grove of trees, you should be good to go.
Gary Stigall
Dir. of Engineering
Bay City TV - XETV
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Eric Simon
New member
Username: Simonen
Post Number: 4
Registered: 09-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 08:11 pm: |
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Thanks, I appreciate your help. |
JoeM
Intermediate Member
Username: Joem
Post Number: 87
Registered: 09-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 12:18 pm: |
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If I were you, I would very definitely try to return it and get one of the UHF antennas Gary recommended.
The odds of success are much better with these antennas.
Your VHF needs are very modest. I can get Ch 8 and 10 (1 edge and a 35 dB Noise Margin) with a simple full wave dipole.
(Message edited by JoeM on September 02, 2009) |
Gary Stigall, XETV
Moderator
Username: Garys
Post Number: 526
Registered: 12-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 12:56 pm: |
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In many locations around town, an outdoor dipole should work fine for VHF. That's why I've been recommending the Winegard HD-1080 for suburban use. A friend of mine uses one to aim SE from Bay Park for UHF, receiving 8 & 10 from the back side perfectly.
This is NOT a good antenna for points north of Mira Mesa.
Where do you live, JoeM?
Gary Stigall
Dir. of Engineering
Bay City TV - XETV
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JoeM
Intermediate Member
Username: Joem
Post Number: 88
Registered: 09-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 02:15 pm: |
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Gary wrote:
"This is NOT a good antenna for points north of Mira Mesa."
Are you saying this because of the VHF stations from Los Angeles ? |
Gary Stigall, XETV
Moderator
Username: Garys
Post Number: 527
Registered: 12-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 03:59 pm: |
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The HD-1080 antenna does not have enough gain for dependable reception in areas far from the transmitters.
Gary Stigall
Dir. of Engineering
Bay City TV - XETV
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JoeM
Intermediate Member
Username: Joem
Post Number: 89
Registered: 09-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 05:00 pm: |
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I thought you were referring to my full wavelength dipole.
I believe the HD-1080 gain specs are -11 dB for Ch 7 and -8 dB for Ch 9, so I wouldn't recommend it. The full wavelength dipole has a narrower pattern than the standard halfwave dipole, so it has a positive gain. I believe that almost any VHF antenna that has a positive gain for Ch 8 and 10 would do in this case (and be less expensive).
(Message edited by JoeM on September 02, 2009) |
Eric Simon
New member
Username: Simonen
Post Number: 5
Registered: 09-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 08:27 pm: |
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I have debated on returning it once it arrives, but the tech rep at solidsignal.com (who is familiar with the problems in san diego) said it should work fine. To be honest, I am really new at this so I got confused with the channel and virtual channel when I ordered it thinking that many of my stations were in the VHF range. I realize that it may be a problem in the future, but like I said in an earlier post is it worth returning a $90 antenna if it is going to cost me $35 in shipping to return it just to pay another $35 to have another one sent out. |
JoeM
Intermediate Member
Username: Joem
Post Number: 90
Registered: 09-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 03, 2009 - 08:53 am: |
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Do you have to buy another antenna from them ?
If you don't, then you can avoid the additional $35 shipping charge.
Actually, I think the shipping fee for the 91XG is only $8 !
By the way, have you tried slowly moving your DB4 up and down about 3 feet from its present location while someone monitors the "signal strength" while you're tuned to XETV ?
(Message edited by JoeM on September 06, 2009) |
Denmark
Advanced Member
Username: Denmark
Post Number: 182
Registered: 06-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 03, 2009 - 04:17 pm: |
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living in carlsbad it was much easier to pickup Orange county and LA stations, even with an indoor antenna! |
JoeM
Intermediate Member
Username: Joem
Post Number: 91
Registered: 09-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 03, 2009 - 04:48 pm: |
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Denmark wrote: "living in carlsbad it was much easier to pickup Orange county and LA stations, even with an indoor antenna! "
Actually, if you look at Eric's tvfool printout you'll see that XETV is about 30 dB above KTLA, LA's CW affiliate . Perhaps you have a better location.
(Message edited by JoeM on September 04, 2009) |
Eric Simon
Junior Member
Username: Simonen
Post Number: 6
Registered: 09-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 04, 2009 - 07:45 am: |
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I have not tried moving it up or down, but when I did originally install it a little over 2 years ago, I use to receive XETV, but the signal was so weak that I would get too many drop outs for my taste even with an amplifier. Now, I cannot get it at all. I used a compass to point it directly at XETV, because it is right down the middle with regards to the various transmitter locations. In addition, I have never received any LA stations. The hill behind me is much larger than the one between me and San Diego towers. |
JoeM
Intermediate Member
Username: Joem
Post Number: 92
Registered: 09-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 04, 2009 - 09:11 am: |
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Eric, can you get 28.1, 29.1 or 33.1 ? These Mexican stations are from the same general direction as XETV.
I don't think you've told us what sort of receiver (tv, converter box, etc) you have. Have you aquired XETV on it (ie, is it on the channel list)? Does the "signal quality" meter on it have a 2 digit numerical readout ?
(Message edited by Joem on September 04, 2009) |
Eric Simon
Junior Member
Username: Simonen
Post Number: 7
Registered: 09-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 05, 2009 - 07:43 am: |
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Let me get back to you on those stations, because I cannot remember off hand and I am not hooked up to the antenna right now, because I am also trying to shorten the cable length from the antenna as well. I use a home built DVR system, so currently I use the DVICO FusionHDTV 5 Gold PCI card (motorola 3rd gen chip) to tune OTA. I am moving this over to a networked tuner card called HD HomeRun manufactured by Silicon Dust. It is nice, because it has a dual tuner and it transfers the signal data over the home network to my server, so I can locate it where ever I want in the house.
(Message edited by simonen on September 06, 2009) |
Jay
Advanced Member
Username: Jay214128
Post Number: 238
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 06, 2009 - 11:22 am: |
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I have two of the HD HomeRuns and they work very well. I have heard that the latest firmware update (August?) reduced the tuning sensitivity, so I'm still running the previous version (from April I think). I'm even considering adding a third HD HomeRun and dividing the six tuners into two sets of three, each connected to a different antenna array (Mt. Wilson and Mt Miguel/Soledad). This would remove the need for a rotator. |
Eric Simon
Junior Member
Username: Simonen
Post Number: 8
Registered: 09-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 06, 2009 - 08:57 pm: |
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Yeah, it is a very nice product. I am running SageTV and I also noticed that the latest version caused problems with the application, so I am also still running the April version as well. Soon, I will make the switch to OTA once I get my antenna situation straightened out. |
JoeM
Intermediate Member
Username: Joem
Post Number: 93
Registered: 09-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 07, 2009 - 07:18 am: |
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You haven't said anything about the arrival of the antenna. If they haven't sent it out yet maybe you could cancel the order and avoid any shipping fee. The shipping fee for the 91XG is only $8 ! |
Eric Simon
Junior Member
Username: Simonen
Post Number: 9
Registered: 09-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 07, 2009 - 07:38 am: |
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It has shipped already, but it won't get here until later in the week. I tried to cancel the shipment last week, but I missed it by a few hours. |
JoeM
Intermediate Member
Username: Joem
Post Number: 94
Registered: 09-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 07, 2009 - 10:13 am: |
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"Original order Shipping charges are non-refundable." And "it is the purchaser's
responsibility to cover the cost of shipping and handling to return the unwanted item."
I guess the lesson to be learned is: Don't order items online unless they have a small
shipping charge.
Still, I don't think I've seen a stronger co-channel situation.
The website also states:
"Product returns that are returned for credit will be subject to a restocking fee."
What if you don't want the credit, just a return of the item price ?
(Message edited by JoeM on September 07, 2009) |
Andy
Advanced Member
Username: Andydrew
Post Number: 371
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 08:53 pm: |
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'Returned for credit' = returned for refund. They may waive the restocking fee if you order another item. You'll need to call and get the specific details of the return policy. If the policy is the same to return it opened and installed vs. unopened you might as well try it out before you return it. You might luck out and find out that it works well.
Too bad I threw away my two 91XG antenna's. They were not in great shape though. In a landfill somewhere now...
I concur with Gary that the 91XG is very good for long-distance UHF reception where you need a narrow beamwidth and a good front-to-back ratio to avoid other signals. Most people don't want to consider this type of Yagi antenna since it is quite large (long) and not HOA friendly. |
JoeM
Advanced Member
Username: Joem
Post Number: 102
Registered: 09-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 07:20 am: |
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Andy wrote "Too bad I threw away my two 91XG antenna's. They were not in great shape though."
Were they damaged ? I didn't think you used them that much ?
(Message edited by JoeM on September 09, 2009) |
Eric Simon
Junior Member
Username: Simonen
Post Number: 10
Registered: 09-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 10:37 am: |
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Just received the antenna and it came in a monster box. Let's see how long it takes for the HOA to complain. hehehehehe
I knew it was going to be big before I bought it though. |
Jay
Advanced Member
Username: Jay214128
Post Number: 239
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 02:00 pm: |
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I just took a look at the installation instructions for the 43XG (actually, they're generic instructions) from the Antennas Direct website. Pay close attention to the last warnings
WARNING
Do not attempt to install if drunk, pregnant or both.
Do not eat antenna.
Do not throw antenna at spouse.
Apparently, these have been problems ;-) |
Gary Stigall, XETV
Moderator
Username: Garys
Post Number: 529
Registered: 12-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 02:44 pm: |
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Oh, yes, you should definitely discuss installing a 43XG with your spouse BEFORE ordering.
If you won't do that, at least plan to install it during when she's away at a retreat or shopping spree.
Gary Stigall
Dir. of Engineering
Bay City TV - XETV
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Eric Simon
Member
Username: Simonen
Post Number: 11
Registered: 09-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 04:48 pm: |
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Ok, I put up my Winegard HD7084P and I officially get 1/3 the channels I use to get, so it is even worse now. Also, I hooked up my amplifier and then I lose 8-1 and 10-1, but I pick up 15-1 and 2.
Ok, back on the roof to point it to 170 degrees and it is no better. I do not receive 6-1, 8-1 or 10-1. I did get 10-1 with my DB4 though.
(Message edited by simonen on September 10, 2009) |
JoeM
Advanced Member
Username: Joem
Post Number: 104
Registered: 09-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 05:40 pm: |
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HDTVprimer has done a preliminary test of a Winegard "zone 4" HD-7698p. Needless to say the shape of the plot differs from Winegard's specs.
(Message edited by JoeM on September 11, 2009) |
Eric Simon
Member
Username: Simonen
Post Number: 12
Registered: 09-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 06:48 pm: |
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Put the DB4 back up and I actually get one more channel than with the Winegard. Still no 6-1, 8-1 or 10-1 though. I use to get 10-1 and 8-1 was spotty at best. Now I do not get either of them at all. I have boxed up the Winegard for return. At the moment I receive: 15.1, 33.20, 39.1, 51.1, 69.1. I am not sure where to go from here. The 91XG may not help me with 8.1 or 10.1, will it?
And I may never get 6.1.
When I got up on the roof with a compass, I was taking note of my surroundings and I have a hill in front of the antenna almost 1200 feet away from the peak and I would say that the height is about 300-400 feet higher than my home. This is why I think I may never get 6.1
(Message edited by simonen on September 10, 2009) |
Andy
Advanced Member
Username: Andydrew
Post Number: 372
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 09:22 pm: |
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Eric,
It seems that you are going to need a high-VHF antenna to pick up 8 and 10. The good news is that you can combine it with a UHF-VHF combiner (UVSJ) point the VHF antenna at Mt. Soledad and the DB4 at Mt. San Miguel.
Gary has provided specific information in using the 91XG to pick up 6.1 as well as to try to 'future-proof' your installation to possibly avoid interference from channels that are plannned to turn up in your area that could interfere. Gary also has already provided additional information on getting a high-VHF antenna to pick up 8 and 10.
Since San Diego currently has only VHF channels on Mt. Soledad and UHF channels on Mt. San Miguel it is fairly simple to get two antennas and combine them with the UVSJ. Biggest issue is having two antenna's outside your home possibly attracting negative attention from your neighbors and/or HOA. Of course this could change if/when other channels start to broadcast in the future.
You should really consider if it is worth over-complicating your setup just to receive 6.1. The 91XG has a fairly narrow beamwidth so it may not be ideal to aim in-between Mt. San Antonio (TJ where 6.1 is) and Mt. San Miguel. You may lose a bit of signal on each of the channels since you are not aiming directly at either one. Although I believe the degrees separating the two mountains from your location is minimal - so the 91XG may work for both reception of Mt. San Antonio and Mt. San Miguel stations. (for some reason your TVFool link is not coming up for me today) |
Andy
Advanced Member
Username: Andydrew
Post Number: 373
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 09:25 pm: |
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Joe - to answer "Were they damaged ? I didn't think you used them that much ?"
The two 91XG's that I have were quite weathered from the ocean air. Especially the relectors that had already been replaced once. They were taking up a lot of space after I had re-assembled them for testing and I didn't care to dissemble them.
The market for used antenna's is not good so it just wasn't worth dealing with them. |
JoeM
Advanced Member
Username: Joem
Post Number: 105
Registered: 09-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 09:43 pm: |
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Not to make a big deal about it, but if you're going to dump them in the trash maybe you might as well give them away. The active element (bowtie) connections are really all that matters electrically. |
JoeM
Advanced Member
Username: Joem
Post Number: 106
Registered: 09-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 09:49 pm: |
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No, the 91XG won't help with 8 or 10.
You should have gotten 8 or 10. Were they in your channel list as real (RF) channels 8 and 10 ? They were previously on the UHF band and Ch 7. If not, most auto scans spend only a very short time on each channel trying to aquire it. Does your receiver have a manual add mode ?
If it's not too late, don't return the large antenna just yet. If there's a neighbor or friend in the area who has OTA ask them if they receive 8 or 10. If they can, then you may have a defective antenna or something else may be wrong with your setup. If they can't then another VHF antenna probably wouldn't help.
If you can't find anyone else who has OTA in your area, try a different cable to eliminate the possibility of a bad cable, etc.
There's also the possibility of electrical noise. I have a paper shredder that when cutting wipes out 8 and 10, but it could be anything from ignition noise from cars to industrial (or commercial) equipment.
The tvfool chart shows only 1 edge (obstruction). Click on the Ch 8 or 10 call letters to see the profiles to get an idea of where the obstruction lies.
(Message edited by JoeM on September 11, 2009) |
Eric Simon
Member
Username: Simonen
Post Number: 13
Registered: 09-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 11, 2009 - 06:31 am: |
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Sorry, I was writing it from memory. Here are the channels I receive with the DB4: 15.1, 15.2, 36.1, 36.2, 36.13, 39.1, 39.2, 39.3, 51.1, 69.1. The winegard did not help to receive more channels so I am returning it today ($30 FedEX ground). I know that I use to receive 8.1 (spotty at best) and 10.1 before the whole digital switchover, but I haven't really used the antenna in the past year. Maybe they were on UHF before?
In regards to obstructions, there is quite a large hill between my house and Mt. Soledad. This was the hill I was attempting to describe in my previous post.
I may be out of luck with 6.1, but 8.1 and 10.1 should be attainable. Would you still recommend the AntennaCraft Y5-7-13 with a UHF-VHF combiner in conjunction with my DB4 then?
Maybe I can pick up something similar at Fry's today.
(Message edited by simonen on September 11, 2009) |
Gary Stigall, XETV
Moderator
Username: Garys
Post Number: 530
Registered: 12-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 11, 2009 - 01:39 pm: |
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I haven't known Fry's to carry a high-gain, high-band VHF yagi antenna yet, but it could happen.
You need the best available if you are behind a hill from Soledad. Consider the Winegard YA-1713 ten-element with a bit more gain for 8 and 10.
If you decide you really, really want 6.1, you will probably have to buy the 42XG. Your TV Fool chart says it will work with this antenna. The DB4 is picking up too much KVMD to work for receiving XETV. No use in buying a rotator because it looks like LA is out of the question.
Good luck,
Gary Stigall
Dir. of Engineering
Bay City TV - XETV
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Eric Simon
Member
Username: Simonen
Post Number: 14
Registered: 09-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 07:37 pm: |
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How frustrating can this get. So I purchased the AntennaCraft Y5-7-13 and it works great, I now receive 8-1 and 10-1. I used the VHF-UHF signal combiner as well, but now I have lost 15-1, 51-1 and 69-1. I am using a UHF amplifier, but the combiner is after the amplifier if that makes sense. I know that if I take off the VHF antenna, I get 15-1, 51-1 and 69-1 back. I am still using the DB4 for UHF. |
Gary Stigall, XETV
Moderator
Username: Garys
Post Number: 531
Registered: 12-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 08:05 pm: |
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Why the amplifier? They almost always do more harm than good unless you are out on the prairie somewhere where there's no noise.
Are you sure the combiner is passing DC to the amplifier from the power supply?
Gary Stigall
Dir. of Engineering
Bay City TV - XETV
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Eric Simon
Member
Username: Simonen
Post Number: 15
Registered: 09-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 08:31 pm: |
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I always had the amplifier on it as it was recommended to me a few years ago. It is a UHF only amplifier and it seemed to always help in the past so I let it there. I will remove it from the antenna and see what effect it has. I am not sure about the DC passthrough. This is the combiner I purchased from solidsignal: http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=UVSJ |
holl_ands
Advanced Member
Username: Holl_ands
Post Number: 2184
Registered: 06-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 01:04 am: |
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For some inexplicable reason, the Pico/Macom and Holland UVSJ devices
only PASS DC on the VHF port, rather than the UHF port where most
people would use a Preamp....so power is not getting to your UHF Preamp.....
Power Module will need to be inserted between Preamp and UVSJ,
which may require plugging it into power in the attic....
There are equivalent devices from other manufacturers,
but you'll have to call to make sure they have DC PASS on UHF side,
cuz specs don't say....and BTW, they all seem to be OUT OF STOCK....
Antennas Direct EU385-CF UHF/VHF Antenna Combiner
Winegard CC-7870 2-Way Antenna Joiner Coupler (CC7870)
BLONDER-TONGUE ZUVSJ
Channel-Master 0549 UHF/VHF-Coupler\
Radio Shack RS-2586 is also a UVSJ type Diplexer, and appears
to have DC PASS on the UHF (only) port:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2510/3730282595_eb597a8e71_o.png
(Message edited by holl_ands on September 17, 2009) |
Eric Simon
Member
Username: Simonen
Post Number: 16
Registered: 09-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 07:29 am: |
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What would be the effect if I put the combiner between the UHF/VHF antennas and the preamp? My preamp says that it is a UHF preamp only, so would it have a negative effect on the VHF signal? |
Eric Simon
Member
Username: Simonen
Post Number: 17
Registered: 09-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 04:15 pm: |
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Looks like this won't work either since I have the Antennas Direct PA-16 preamp that came with my DB4 UHF antenna. It does not pass through VHF signal. I was also using this with the first antenna I bought, so I bet this might be why I was having so much trouble. I need to find a preamp that does both. |
JoeM
Advanced Member
Username: Joem
Post Number: 110
Registered: 09-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 18, 2009 - 09:54 am: |
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Where did you get the AntennaCraft Y5-7-13 ? |
Eric Simon
Member
Username: Simonen
Post Number: 18
Registered: 09-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 18, 2009 - 10:39 am: |
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I ordered it from solidsignal, but they sent me the Winegard YA 1713 Prostar 1000 10 El. Hi-Band VHF Antenna (YA-1713). I assume they are similar, either way it works great (8-1 and 10-1 are perfect)! I am heading out to Fry's to get a different combiner or UHF/VHF preamp. I have the PA-16 right now, but is there any advantage with upgrading that versus a combiner that allows DC pass? |
JoeM
Advanced Member
Username: Joem
Post Number: 111
Registered: 09-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 18, 2009 - 11:05 am: |
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If they sent you the Winegard for the same price as the Antennacraft, you got a break. The Winegard has more gain, but of course it's longer.
(Message edited by JoeM on September 18, 2009) |
Eric Simon
Member
Username: Simonen
Post Number: 19
Registered: 09-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 18, 2009 - 01:47 pm: |
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Picked up the Channel Master CM 7777 Titan2 VHF/UHF Antenna Preamplifier from Fry's to use instead of my old UHF only preamp and combiner that does not allow DC pass. So everything is working really well now, I am picking up the co-channel LA station that overlaps with XETV so that is a bummer. Thanks to everyone for your patience and help. I guess the Terrestrial Digital 91XG is next on the list.
Eric
(Message edited by simonen on September 18, 2009) |
JoeM
Advanced Member
Username: Joem
Post Number: 112
Registered: 09-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 19, 2009 - 09:57 am: |
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15 dB is the co-channel spec for 5th generation receivers. Your tvfool chart has XETV about 10 dB above KVMD (Banning). Your DB4 f/b ratio should be at least 10 dB so I think If you had a 5th generation receiver, you just might get it. |
Eric Simon
Member
Username: Simonen
Post Number: 20
Registered: 09-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 19, 2009 - 05:30 pm: |
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Interesting, I think my fusionHD 5 gold card is 3rd gen, but I am not sure what my HD Homerun uses, maybe 4th. I am using the antenna with my fusion card right now, but I intend to try the hd homerun soon. |
Andy
Advanced Member
Username: Andydrew
Post Number: 376
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 19, 2009 - 11:10 pm: |
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If you don't plan use the HD Homerun as a network tuner to service multiple media center PC's, you may want to consider the AverMedia AVerTVHD Duet. Has two ATSC tuners on an internal PCIEx1 card. Much less expensive than the HD Homerun and it doesn't consume electricity when your media PC is in sleep mode or off. HD Home run consumes power 24x7 unless you unplug it from the electric outlet.
http://www.avermedia-usa.com//AVerTV/Product/ProductDetail.aspx?Id=477
I have one of these cards and am very happy with it. It's priced around $60. |
David Schmidt
New member
Username: Davids12
Post Number: 4
Registered: 09-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 20, 2009 - 02:58 pm: |
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I thought the HDHomeRun could only decode clear QAM, not ATSC? |
Eric Simon
Member
Username: Simonen
Post Number: 21
Registered: 09-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 20, 2009 - 05:29 pm: |
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It works for both. In fact you can use 1 tuner for each if you like. |
Eric Simon
Member
Username: Simonen
Post Number: 22
Registered: 09-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 20, 2009 - 09:35 pm: |
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I saw in another post that the UHF antenna should go above the VHF one which is good to know.
I ordered the 91XG, because the wife likes a lot of the programs on XETV. Must consider the WAF (wife acceptance factor).
(Message edited by simonen on September 20, 2009) |
Eric Simon
Member
Username: Simonen
Post Number: 23
Registered: 09-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 24, 2009 - 05:59 pm: |
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No love from the Terrestrial Digital 91XG in picking up XETV. I guess I am just out of luck. It does block out the LA stations though. |
Andy
Advanced Member
Username: Andydrew
Post Number: 378
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 25, 2009 - 11:40 am: |
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Eric, you may need to spend some extra time aiming the 91XG. The beamwidth that it can receive is quite small. Also, the tilt of the antenna can make a difference so you will want to tweak that also.
Also, with UHF you want to get the antenna as high as you can and mount in a location where you don't have any local obstructions (trees, other houses etc). In addition, your cable run should be RG6 cable, as short as possible, with no splitters.
You may be able to receive XETV if you optimize as much as you can. Then again, you may not be able to receive it OTA.
I live <6 miles from several digital transmitters here in TJ. Can't receive some of them investing a lot of time and trying different antennas and gathering information and recommendations from many sources. Sometimes it's just not meant to be... Cable or Satellite may be a better option. |
Eric Simon
Member
Username: Simonen
Post Number: 24
Registered: 09-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 25, 2009 - 12:07 pm: |
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I have the antenna pointed directly at XETV's transmitter (133 magnetic degrees for me) at a height of about 30 ft. I have a large hill about 1500 feet away obstructing my line of site. I cannot go any higher or else I will have problems with the HOA unfortunately. Either way, I would not be willing to invest hundreds of dollars in a large mast just to pick up one station. I will try the tilt though, maybe that could help. Thanks. |
Jo
Advanced Member
Username: Sandog
Post Number: 203
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 25, 2009 - 12:38 pm: |
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Eric,
What are you using for a receiver?
One of those cheap converter boxes can help with finding the signal if its there. Just about all of them allow for manual tuning and provide a signal strength indicator. Its a lot more affordable than buying a spectrum analyzer.
My new Samsung TV can't just stay on a channel looking for a digital signal since it defaults to analog reception. The signal has to be strong for the TV to map it. |
Eric Simon
Member
Username: Simonen
Post Number: 25
Registered: 09-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 25, 2009 - 03:28 pm: |
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Looks like I am getting about 18% signal strength.
(Message edited by simonen on September 25, 2009) |
Jay
Advanced Member
Username: Jay214128
Post Number: 241
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 25, 2009 - 04:39 pm: |
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You could turn it around and point it towards Mt. Wilson and watch KTLA-DT instead of XETV-DT, assuming no obstructions in that direction. KTLA and XETV are both CW network affiliates, so will carry the same primetime programming. |
Eric Simon
Intermediate Member
Username: Simonen
Post Number: 26
Registered: 09-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 25, 2009 - 09:25 pm: |
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Didn't think about that...I will give that a try, because I do have less obstructions (I think) to LA. But then again, I would lose the other uhf broadcasts in san diego.
(Message edited by simonen on September 25, 2009) |
Tom Wellman
Advanced Member
Username: Sdtom
Post Number: 396
Registered: 01-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 26, 2009 - 07:20 am: |
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But you would get exciting Los Angeles Clippers Basketball on KTLA!
Cable Provider: Time Warner Cable (North San Diego County, in Carlsbad)
TV: 40" Sony BRAVIA KDL-40s4100 LCD HDTV.
Set Top Box: Motorola DCH 6416 HD DVR connected via 6' Apple HDMI cable.
TV: 32" LCD HDTV from Sylvania
Set Top Box: Motorola DCH6200 HD Set Top Box connected via 6' Apple HDMI cable.
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JoeM
Advanced Member
Username: Joem
Post Number: 113
Registered: 09-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 27, 2009 - 01:30 pm: |
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Better yet, KTLA has "THIS TV" a movie channel sorely need here in San Diego and which XETV should get.
P.S. Eric, I had to slowly move my antenna away from a weak signal station to try to get out of the "shadow" of a hill. The signal would peak every 7 feet or so with nulls in between. I selected the highest peak and now I get the channel about 90 to 95 % of the time.
There are at least 3 directions to move the antenna position to try and find a peak.
1) Up and down on the mast (x axis).
2) To the left or the right (y axis).
3) Towards or away from the transmitter (z axis).
(Message edited by JoeM on September 29, 2009) |
Eric Simon
Intermediate Member
Username: Simonen
Post Number: 27
Registered: 09-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 27, 2009 - 04:57 pm: |
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Jay, I took your suggestion and I am still able to get some of the San Diego UHF stations, but now I get KTLA as well. I kept my VHF pointed south so I can still get 8.1 and 10.1. Thanks for the suggestion, I think it will due. |
HDTV@92120
Advanced Member
Username: Hdtv92120
Post Number: 183
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 27, 2009 - 06:06 pm: |
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You might get several additional channels if you add a VHF-HI antenna pointed to the north. I have one just to try and pick extra sporting events.
Samsung PN50B650 / Sony KP-57HW40 / Sony KD-30XS955 / Sony KDL-32SL130 / Panasonic TC-26LX20
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Eric Simon
Intermediate Member
Username: Simonen
Post Number: 28
Registered: 09-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, September 28, 2009 - 06:56 am: |
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I have one pointed south for SD stations, but I don't want to push my luck any further with the HOA. |
Eric Simon
Intermediate Member
Username: Simonen
Post Number: 29
Registered: 09-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 09:07 am: |
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I am finding that my KTLA signal is very unreliable. On a separate note, do you think if I took the reflectors off of my 91XG will have any adverse effects? I could get some SD UHF channels more reliably if I took it off, but I don't want to reduce my LA signals. Alternatively, I could put my DB4 back up and point it south, then combine it to my 91XG before the preamp. Which do you think would be the best route? |
JoeM
Advanced Member
Username: Joem
Post Number: 117
Registered: 09-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 10:10 am: |
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Eric wrote: "do you think if I took the reflectors off of my 91XG will have any adverse effects?"
See the section "Comparing a Yagi/Corner-Reflector to an 8-Dipole-Reflector" on this page:
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/types.html
As for your other idea, looks like you would need something called a "Join-tenna".
(Message edited by JoeM on October 01, 2009) |
Jay
Advanced Member
Username: Jay214128
Post Number: 242
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 06:13 pm: |
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Eric, I think you're asking for problems either way. The rule of thumb for joining two antennas is that they be identical and pointed in the same direction. With all of the cochannel issues in San Diego you will probably end up with less, not more. You are welcome to try, who knows.
According to your tvfool.com data, you are 2 Edge for KTLA-DT and XETV-DT, so you are going to have some trouble receiving either. XETV-DT is listed as a stronger signal, so should be your better bet, unless cochannel from KVMD-DT is thwarting your efforts. KVMD-DT is also listed as 2 Edge with less signal than XETV-DT. |
Eric Simon
Intermediate Member
Username: Simonen
Post Number: 30
Registered: 09-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 07:46 pm: |
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Unfortunately, I cannot receive XETV so I did a 180 on the antenna for KTLA, which I can get more often than not. However, it is really spotty at times. I can get most of the SD UHF stations as well, but not at the same strength I use to since it is a uni-directional antenna. I figured I would take the reflectors off the back and see what happens, but I am beginning to think that I should just leave everything pointed at SD and forget about XETV all together.
Either way, I can get all the content in my DVR system through HuLu.com anyways. |
Andy
Advanced Member
Username: Andydrew
Post Number: 379
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 08:57 pm: |
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Receiving LA from that distance is likely to be spotty. It will depend a lot on the weather conditions. Sometimes you'll get perfect picture, but sometimes you'll get nothing.
I spend a lot of time with two 91XG's combined in an attempt to receive reliable LA reception a couple of years ago very close to the ocean in Tijuana. It was not reliable enough if you need it to work all of the time.
Now I get channels 7, 9, 11, and 13 most of the time with my Winegard hi-VHF antenna oriented just a few degrees off of Mt. Wilson (I am aiming at Mt. Soledad). I often watch the KCAL-9 news at night. Some days it's perfect for the entire hour, other days I tune in and can't get it at all.
My vote is for aim back at San Diego and forget about trying to receive XETV-DT. You can aim the 91XG toward Mt. San Miguel and keep you hi-vhf as-is. Going to be very reliable and you will only be missing 1 english broadcasting station and it's not one of the big 4 networks - ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC.
If you watch anything on the CW, get it off of hulu.com. |
Eric Simon
Intermediate Member
Username: Simonen
Post Number: 31
Registered: 09-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 02, 2009 - 06:58 am: |
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I think I might just do that. |
Eric Simon
Intermediate Member
Username: Simonen
Post Number: 32
Registered: 09-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 02, 2009 - 11:41 am: |
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Andy, the avermedia duet card is awesome! I am getting 100% signal strength from KTLA right now (usually around 60% with HD Homerun). It will take a few days to be sure, I think Sunday will be a good test since we are supposed to get rain to see how things pan out. If things remain good, then I will not need to change a thing with my antenna.
(Message edited by simonen on October 02, 2009) |
Andy
Advanced Member
Username: Andydrew
Post Number: 380
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 02, 2009 - 07:47 pm: |
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That's good news. What application are you using to determine signal strength - Sage TV? The same application to measure both cards? Otherwise the signal strength information may not be comparible. |
Eric Simon
Intermediate Member
Username: Simonen
Post Number: 33
Registered: 09-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 02, 2009 - 09:03 pm: |
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Yeah, I am using Sage to give me the signal strength for both cards and HDHR. So far today it has been very good even with the rain. Although, maybe I should not get my hopes up due to atmospheric bounce or would that not apply in this case? |
Brian
Member
Username: K6sti
Post Number: 11
Registered: 06-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 03, 2009 - 12:01 pm: |
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Eric, I'm on a 700-foot hilltop in San Marcos with a clear shot to the mountains north of Camp Pendleton, which the L.A. signals diffract over to reach me. I get reasonable UHF reception most days from Mt. Wilson, but often with dropouts. On the best days I won't see any dropouts during a couple hours of watching. On good days the dropouts are infrequent and brief. On bad days the dropouts are frequent, long, or I may not see anything at from a particular station for some time. I'm using a CM4228 with mast-mounted preamp into a Tivax converter box. The dropouts are deep enough that I think the only improvement could come from space diversity, with another antenna somewhere else on my property that I could switch to.
Good luck. Let us know how receiving L.A. works out.
Brian |
Eric Simon
Intermediate Member
Username: Simonen
Post Number: 34
Registered: 09-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 06, 2009 - 06:53 am: |
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After a week, I can say that KTLA is pretty solid 95% of the time and I can get CBS and NBC out of LA about 85% of the time. San Diego NBC, CBS, ABC and FOX are 99% solid. All is well now...thanks everyone! |
Brian
Member
Username: K6sti
Post Number: 12
Registered: 06-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 08, 2009 - 07:01 am: |
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Eric, how has L.A. reception been the last two evenings? It hasn't been good here for KCET 28, with an annoying number of long dropouts.
I had pretty good L.A. reception most of the summer, but I have not had my 4228 long enough to see what it does in winter conditions when there is little tropospheric enhancement. You can check predicted tropo enhancement here:
http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo_wam.html
I have found good correlation between color on the map and UHF-TV/FM reception up the coast.
Brian |
Eric Simon
Intermediate Member
Username: Simonen
Post Number: 35
Registered: 09-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 08, 2009 - 08:03 am: |
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I have had a lot of dropouts on LA NBC and CBS, but KTLA has been good most of the time. I recorded melrose place last night for the wife and SageTV detected one minor dropout during the recording. In general, I have noticed that reception with LA stations is better at night than during the day.
Neat website by the way. |
Brian
Member
Username: K6sti
Post Number: 13
Registered: 06-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 08, 2009 - 09:42 am: |
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Yes, that's a very useful propagation site. I'm surprised it predicts observed propagation so well (much more accurate in its way than TVFool or FMFool). Just about any color along the coast seems to bring better TV and FM signals from L.A. and Santa Barbara.
I see a lot of differences in signal strength among the L.A. TV stations. I mostly watch 28, 50, 58, and 24 in San Bernardino. The worst is 28, probably because of Mexican 28 interference to the rear and KCET's relative low power (I believe it will soon increase). 24, which requires a somewhat more northern antenna heading, is strongest and almost always solid. 50 seems the strongest from Mt. Wilson among the stations I watch. However, they seem to be running a permanent pledge drive so usually I just tune right through. I watch 2 and 4 occasionally when they are running different programs than our 8 and 39. 2 always seems solid, 4 less so. I can get 7, 9, 11, and 13 on VHF using the 4228 with its mast-mounted preamp, but the signals are not that reliable. 8 and 10 are solid with the 4228 pointed in any direction except perpendicular to Mt. Soledad.
Brian |
General over-the-air (OTA)